Monday, September 11, 2006

Discussion on Rape

Is it possible to love someone who rapes you?

Hero, why did you bring up this subject? What was your point?
Rape is the strongest way to devour someone. More than murder. It is a very intens topic. Forgivness is stronger than rape though, it lets go of the past and presents us with a new future. A rebirth if you will. This is a Christian group. I wanted to get us to talk about Forgivenss.
Okay, that makes sense.But Alex is not a believer. You can't expect her to forgive, or to want to forgive. And I think that if she tried to force herself to forgive, then she could do herself and others harm. Forgiveness isn't natural, it's a gift from God.Also, Jesus speaks of forgiveness in a couple differnt ways.1. Release from bitternessIf we hold bitterness against an event in the past, it does more damage to us than it does to our enemy. If we make the Christian choice to love our enemies, as Jesus commanded believers to, then releasing the bitterness is a minimum, and it is ultimately healthy. I think that's what you're talking about.2. Restoration of relationshipIf someone has sinned against us, and they repented of their sin, then we are required by Jesus to forgive them-- that is, to restore the relationship. But if they do not repent, or just make excuses for the evil they did, we do NOT have to forgive them, according to Jesus. Luke 17:3-4-- "If a brother sins, rebuke him; if he repents, forgive him." Matthew 18:15-17-- "If a brother sins against you, confront such a one privately. If they listen to you, you have won your brother. If they do not listen to you, bring one or two others... if they still do not listen to you, treat such a one as a tax collector." Basically, if they repent, get friendly again. If they don't, then keep away from them.Also, I have one more question. So Hero, why did you recommend to that kid that he retalliate against those who jumped him if you are all for forgiveness?-Steve
The situation is one that is current. He is still in Danger. So is His girfriend. I still belive in self defense. I mentioned that he should not instigate anything, but rather let God give him the strenghth if confronted. I can fight in a boxing ring without hating my opponent. Even if my opponent hates me.
I am sorry, but I think you need to be like Jesus consistantly, if you are a Christian.Jesus says that to harm another's life IS to hate them, and that this is the opposite of love-- Mark 3:4. And, as Alex described, when you defend yourself, you don't know what permanent damage you can cause. If we love them, the MINIMUM is to not harm them and to help them in their need.I am glad that Jesus chose not to believe in self-defense. And he told us to do the same:"If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me.""Whoever wants to save his life must lose it.""Love your enemies, do good to those who harm you, pray for those who despitefully use you.""For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed." I Peter 2:20-24If Christians are to be like Jesus, it is specifically in the area of suffering like him and DOING NOTHING IN RETURN but allowing God to enact His justice in His own way.For the non-Christians reading this, Jesus' way is not for you, and I don't expect you to think it makes any sense. But for the Christians, Jesus' way of the cross is what we are all called to live by. Without exception. To live like Jesus in this way is enacting true faith. Anything less is unbelief.-Steve

I hope you don't take this wrong, but then is it your advice, would it be your advice, to some woman close to you, that if a man tries to rape her, not to try to fight back, to not try to stop him, to just lie there and take it?
-Solo sono una diva

Being a Christian isn't being passive. There is a difference between stopping someone and harming them. In our culture of excessively violent movies and television, we are trained that harming people is the only option available to us. There are other options. A good book on this subject--essays written by many people, including Carly Simon-- is What Would You Do? It talks about alternatives to violence when you are being personally threatened with violence.
Also, this is a perspective that cannot be understood without faith. The way of the cross is to lay down one's rights and life in order to allow God to accomplish His justice. It is what Jesus did-- and it is to a certain degree what MLK did. It does work.
The way of the cross is not looked at as an appropriate response to evil, because our society doesn't think that we should sacrifice ourselves for anything. That somehow, evil should be stopped without sacrifice. The whole point of Christianity is to have a group of people who are willingly sacrificing themselves in order that others might be saved. When- and where-ever Christianity loses that aspect, it is no longer the way of Jesus, but the way of the world.
Steve K.

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